# 1 in DC

[ahab3333]

I think that we should use the championship to boost our levels in projects that are counted on the DC page. we are in second now and if we move up in a few projects we might be able to overtake the #1 team freeDC. that would be a huge achievement for us.

[NeoGen]

Indeed! :)

Most of the projects I picked for the contest were projects that needed a boost. In Leiden for example we were around 16th when I announced the contest, then we went up to 13th when I actually started the contest, and now we're 4th! :)

We also could use a boost on several non-boinc projects, but those are not so linear as the boinc projects and in these last few months we had a surge of new members, thanks to the BBC project, that are also just starting to understand how the DC world runs.

I feel that after this boinc competition everyone will have much more knowledge and experience in DC projects, and how they work. If all goes well, then maybe we could set up an Autumn non-boinc contest? ;)

[Strongbow]

Why not a week of racing every month??? :-k

[NeoGen]

Regular races every month would make it a normal thing. Doing it only once a year turns it into a special occasion. :P

[gamer007]

Hehehe. Anyways, I'm all set for SZTAKI for next week. :) I gotta test some WUs to see how long each are and stuff.

[ahab3333]

the projects that will do the most good are

Physical Science
-Eon
-Muon1
-uFluids@Home

Mathematical
-EulerNet
-Prime Sierpinski Problem - PRP
-RC5-72
-Riesel Sieve Project - LLR

if we gain in these projects I think that we would give freeDC a run for first place

[vaughan]

if we gain in these projects I think that we would give freeDC a run for first place

That is a mighty big if :shocked!:

[Brucifer]

I think that we should use the championship to boost our levels in projects that are counted on the DC page. we are in second now and if we move up in a few projects we might be able to overtake the #1 team freeDC. that would be a huge achievement for us.

Uhmmmmmmmmmmmmm I sincerely doubt it. FDC has some massive assets available. :D

I'm sort of a "dual" member. I've been with FDC for a fairly long time, and only crunch on stuff here that doesn't conflict with FDC's goals. Bok of FDC is a good friend and has been for a long time. We were together way back with US-Distributed before we moved to FDC. So to be blunt about it, I couldn't crunch against him/FDC. That's why I only do very limited projects here. Myself, I won't get involved in a contest against FDC. Sorry,

[Steve Lux]

I've looked over some of the lead FreeDC member assets. They could smoke us AMDUsers for lunch and not even get heartburn.

For me I'll keep crunching for Predictor until I get to team 5th place, (or to help the team bump up another position if needed), then I'll put a core back on Climate Prediction as I still have 1000 hours or so left for a WU's completion.

My understanding is that both are DC projects, so I'm already putting out all I can for now. I keep having stability issues with my 4800+ and it seems that no matter what I do it keeps locking up or rebooting. If I could get it to stablize I could get up to 1500 RAC a day. Anyhow, my point is that some of us are already pushing all we can.

[NeoGen]

Conclusion.. let's not get ahead of ourselves. :roll:

Free-DC is not the all-mighty Free-DC it was a couple of years ago. And we're not the small team we used to be either. :)

Little by little we've been gaining on them on the DC-Vault every week. So we have to be patient and keep harvesting more new members to the team if possible. That's how we're gonna get to the top! :)

[carlos]

Free-DC is not the all-mighty Free-DC it was a couple of years ago. And we're not the small team we used to be either. :)


I think you're wrong. The heavy crunchers only run medical projects. Just look at maefly, by himself he took Free-DC to first place at Riesel LLR. Imagine what guys like Lauren, beth133, condor, PCZ, PY 222, ronbo54 could do if they decide to run small projects!!!! They just need to run them by one week or so to help Free-DC climb a lot of places.

Anyway, I totally disagree with DC-vault. In terms of work done I don't think Free-DC is the number 1 team.

Carlos

[mitro]

We just need to continually gain valuable members the way we have been. :)

[drezha]

I'm sort of a "dual" member. I've been with FDC for a fairly long time, and only crunch on stuff here that doesn't conflict with FDC's goals. Bok of FDC is a good friend and has been for a long time. We were together way back with US-Distributed before we moved to FDC. So to be blunt about it, I couldn't crunch against him/FDC. That's why I only do very limited projects here. Myself, I won't get involved in a contest against FDC. Sorry,

Kinda like me.

I could never really leave my team, Team Phoenix Rising. We may not be a huge group but we have some hardware.. :) We're in the top 20 for some of the main DC projects (and currently flying up Rosetta's ranks!)

Thats why all I've crunched here is some maths projects, which we dont do over at TPR...We're a BOINC only team pretty much...though we did come first in Lifemapper and did well in D2OL before it bork and we're in the top 100 for Folding@home

[Brucifer]

Free-DC is not the all-mighty Free-DC it was a couple of years ago. And we're not the small team we used to be either. :)


I think you're wrong. The heavy crunchers only run medical projects. Just look at maefly, by himself he took Free-DC to first place at Riesel LLR. Imagine what guys like Lauren, beth133, condor, PCZ, PY 222, ronbo54 could do if they decide to run small projects!!!! They just need to run them by one week or so to help Free-DC climb a lot of places.

Anyway, I totally disagree with DC-vault. In terms of work done I don't think Free-DC is the number 1 team.

Carlos

@neogen -- I think you would be amazed what FDC has available, specially if a race comes along. While AMD_Users has been picking up members after the termination of seti@home classic, so has every other main team out there in DC land. I also notice that some heavy hitters that were here aren't around anymore either. :)

@carlos -- I agree with your point on DC-Vault. It really isn't a truely comprehensive listing/gathering of the DC world and all the effort going into it by all the teams.

@no one in particular -- wasn't that long ago there was a listing called the DCR. People/teams were mashing their heads agains walls and wailing, trying to get everyone playing the "team total points game as determined by DCR." In reality it created some serious animosity as in practice it was pushing people to go for the #1 overall rather than allowing them to crunch what they wanted. The result was that a lot of people got tired of it and just quit or quietly faded into the background and started crunching annonymously (or however you spell it) so they weren't hounded by everyone with their own personal agenda trying to get everyone on "their" bandwagon.

[ahab3333]

i realize that we probably cant beat FDC in an all out race but if we might be able to sneak by them by beating them where we can. and as for why we should try what good is having a harpoon if your never going to aim at the white whale. (hense the name: ahab)

I also agree that we should not press people to run projects they dont want to but if you have a championship why not use it to take aim at fdc and hit them where it hurts.

[NeoGen]

Well... I got quoted and requoted, so I might as well explain what I meant up there. :roll:
I meant it as a perspective point of view. Some years ago we would look at Free-DC in the stats and think "they're so far away", now we look at Free-DC on the rankings and they're much closer. Free-DC is still the greatest DC team out there, but it doesn't look so "big" to us nowadays because we grew up too and got closer.

And I do have a small idea of the crunching power that Free-DC has in store. But the more projects come around, the more fragmented it gets, and the harder it is to keep those top ranks... like it is happening at Rosetta. :P

[Bok]

Hey guys. first of all, I'm very impressed with what you guys have done over here. Excellent work and it all goes to the overall science of DC.

A lot of people have Free-DC wrong. The goal (before I joined them) was always to be of service to the DC community. We host forums for any project that would like them, I provide stats (though selfishly, to be honest, I wrote them for me more than anything).

Bruce has been a friend for a long time for me. We will hookup sometime as well once my kids are a little older!!! (I have 500,000 airmiles to cash in after all!) -- that's a promise!

You guys may well pass us in the DC-Vault. To be honest, I, personally, don't care. It's not really been discussed much either on the Free-DC boards or elsewhere that I know. I was asked many times to provide the same kind of stats after the original DCR died. I didn't do it, mainly for the same reasons Bruce mentions. I think, though it's fun in a way, it detracts from the overall project goals in some ways.

All my opinion only, not Free-DC's...

Bok

[Ototero]

If a competition causes more people to crunch a project, that can only be good for DC.

Any inter-team rivalry is also good because it generates more DC.

If we ever get to number 1 in the Vault, then we'll be the ones everybody guns for. Naturally.

Our growth has slowed this month, hopefully that is temporary.

And, like Bok, I do the stats because of the technical challenge. Although his challenge must be much greater because he processes ALL teams. I only concentrate on AMD Users. My little DOS database has creaked and groaned many times, but it soldiers on.

[Strongbow]

=D< =D< =D<

More systems for all DC'ers that's what I say!

If anyone wants a challenge on their hands then unplug your Wife's hair dryer and try plugging in a PC in it's place! :lol:

[Brucifer]

That's not a challenge..... that's "sudden death."

[NeoGen]

You'd have to be real fast... to be able to get away unharmed. :lol: :P

[Steve Lux]

Hm... I had not really paid much attention to DC-Vault until tonight. Their scoring/ranking system is highly suspect. I don't know how they are getting their results, but those results don't seem to reflect actual team scores.

As an example; In Predictor@Home there are 9 teams getting more than 10,000 RAC per day, yet according to DC-Vault all teams are getting scores less than 9999. DC Vault is showing AMDusers as getting a score greater than 9900, yet our RAC is consistantly less than 6000. I don't know how DC-Vault is acquring their posted scores, but I wouldn't rely upon their results until I knew more about their scoring process. Do we get extra credit because we're so nice?

When I see Free-DC's team RAC of 235,910 and compare it to AMDuser's team RAC of 83,855 (as reported by Boinc 15 minutes ago) I would be hesitant of calling them out, unless you simply wanted to focus multi-team capacity on a specific project - with the knowledge that we are likely to get our rears handed to us sizzling on a platter with a side order of baked potato, dinner rolls and a garden salad (I'll take mine medium-rare and hold the crutons please).

[NeoGen]

The DC-Vault's scoring system has nothing to do with the RAC's or the points. It's merely based on the ranking of the team.
Basically, the maximum score you can have at a project is 10,000 (if your ranked 1st) and the minimum is somewhere below 1,000 (if your last ranked).
The points for the teams inbetween are calculated depending on how many teams there are on the project.

They got the scoring formula somewhere on their boards, I've seen it a couple of times.

[russkris]

Hello AMDUSERS...

Firstly, Just to clear it up....The following is how the DC-Vault points are calculated


The scoring calculation to determine the team positions within the vault ranking system works as follows:

Overall score = Sum of all category scores
Category scores = Sum of all projects scores in a category
Project score = 10000 - ((Position - 1) * (10000 / Total number of teams in the project))


But thats not the reason for me poping over, I just would like to pass on my congrats for overtaking Free-DC in the Vault..

I would have attached a screen shot but I dont know how to..

Anyway
Congratulation AMDUsers

[Ototero]

Thanks Rusty.

But you're first again, but with a reduced lead. Keep looking in the mirror, we're right behind you.

:) :) :)

[russkris]

No we are way behind AMD Users.. You guys are Number 1 in the DC-Vault

[AMD-USR_JL]

2nd again...:banghead:

[russkris]

but you was there and I have the sceeny to prove it :D

[Ototero]

Sorry Russ, I got you muddled with Free DC.

We're are back to 2nd, 6000 points behind Free DC. It must have been that last new project added to the stats. It made us jump up 1 spot.

[NeoGen]

Yea, we got added before they did. :)

We'll catch them permanently one of these days... :P

[russkris]

http://tinypic.com/hvpjsh.gif

WTG AMDdudes.. Your made pos 1 in the Vault

[NeoGen]

Hehe :)

Yet again we reached up there. But it won't last long unfortunately, I noticed that Free-DC is still missing their Riesel Sieve (boinc) score... :roll:

[Brucifer]

I really wish some of you would get off this Free-DC kick. Free-DC(FDC) isn't even trying to place in the DC-Vault period. No if's and's or but's. We have people farmed out all over the place that have their farms crunching away helping their friends at other places and teams. I get absolutely ZERO hassles from anyone at FDC for coming over here and running psp sieving up to the top for amd_users or adding the points I've added under the amd_user flag. And I'm not trying to brag about anything here. What I'm trying to say is that FDC is all over the place. Go look at ARS Technica scores, you'll find even heavyweight hard core FDC member PCZ has been over helping them, as I and several others have. A lot of teams don't have members that are so tolerant of the outflow of computing power to other teams as FDC is.

What is different about FDC now days is that the team knows what it can do in sheer output numbers. And the team also knows what it can do in helping out other teams and projects. Projects are the name of the game now days. If an FDC member can go somewhere to help get some life and interest into a project then they will, and the team supports them in doing this. More thatn one distributed computing project has received extensive help getting set up, initial testing, and even provided use of needed computing equipment from FDC. And FDC is not alone in this either by any means at all.

A race, what is a race???? When the Dutch Power Cows do one of their "stampede" numbers with FDC, that is a race, and the guns are brought out and there is no mistake that it is a race. Of course it is all done with a lot of good natured ribbing and all. And Dutch Power Cows has kicked FDC's ass more than once. And there is a LOT of respect for each team by the other. Cause DPC has to work hard to do it. And that is a race. DC-Vault isn't even on the horizon in comparison to that. And one other thing I'll mention here, is that there are very few teams that will get out there and mix it up with DPC. If you are really feeling your oats, you might just go give it a try.

[NeoGen]

I'm sorry Brucifer, I didn't mean to annoy you or anything... it's just a serious case of addiction for stats that some of us got :roll:

Free-DC is still one of the strongest teams (in not THE strongest) in the world, and we have the utmost respect for them, but we being above them on public stats even if for just a day is like showing up on TV, it's a very very rare event. :lol: (unless if one is a celebrity)

But you are right, the DC-Vault's stats don't show a team's real computing power, so we shouldn't base ourselves on them for teams comparisons... but what can I say... stats are stats and we're totally addicted to them. ;)


P.S. - I don't totally agree with Bok's DCR either, but I honestly believe that it's closer to show the team's computing power than the Vault... Unfortunately it hasn't picked up much adepts so far.

[Brucifer]

Well Neogen, FDC is definitely not the strongest, we know that. :) It is a very substantial team though. Look at the Russians, massive horsepower there too, same goes with the Germans with Rechencraft and a couple others. I just mentioned DPC because they get involved in some of the same things we do. The overclockers are running hard too.

But you don't see all of them in all the projects. Lots of teams, lots of projects. And that is the problem with the DC_Vault and also Bok's DCR. They both only reflect a team's standings IF the teams happens to be playing that game. There's teams out there that show up on the two stats lists but who aren't really playing the game. They are more interested in pursuing the projects they are crunching on. And so in that vein, the DC-Vault/DCR give a false view of reality really. It's a real fun game for some to play, and if they enjoy that more power to them. And like someone else said, if it helps generate some more interest in some of the projects then it is good for the projects. After all, the projects are why we are all here in the first place.

But if people are playing the DC_Vault game, then please realize that everyone is not playing it. I think it is great that the team got to the #1 place and the team does deserve congratulations for that. I'm just trying to say that DC_Vault and DCR is not a true respresentation of how to determine the strength of any team because everyone is not playing.

And please don't take this all that I'm knocking AMD_Users because I'm not. Otherwise I would not have spent the time here with you. I have some very good friends here. I'm still adding points here. It's just that first and foremost I'm a Free-DC team member, and I'm crunching for you with the blessings of FDC. And then someone here trys to tell me that they are whipping FDC with points that I have helped them with................... ?????? If FDC reall thought that this was all serious, I'd be helping Free-DC get to the top of the vault. Just trying to inject a little reality and perspective in this is all.

A lot of the FDC members think quite highly of this team and are very happy for the team to see it maturing into a first class team that is making a a real name for itself as a serious contender in distributed computing. And in the serious contender world, they really don't run around trying to say they beat this or that other than IF there happens to be a mutually agreed upon race such as AMD_Users just had with TPC. And then that's done just for fun for the project at hand.

Serious contenders don't have to run around telling everyone how great they are, the other outfits know it and maybe that is the true point at where a team becomes one of the big ones. Because once a team gets to the point that they realize they are a power house, they also realize that there is much much more to this game than just points. The "points" are just the initial mechanism that helps the team reach the larger picture. I don't know if you follow what I'm trying to say here or not. But AMD_Users is a growing and evolving team that is turning into it's own unique outfit. And yes, AMD_Users has become a serious contender in distributed computing teams. But there isn't a true #1 among the serious contenders as they are all very unique and they all have their special interests, and you just can't measure them against each other because they are all different. They all make very substantial contributions to multiple areas. And yes, AMD_Users has reached that point in it's life, it has become one of the big ones.

[Jeff]

I would just like to clarify that Russkris is from the DC-Vault I believe. He was the only one that said anything about us going #1. Neogen added that Free DC's scores weren't accurate yet.

[Brucifer]

Go back to the very first post in the thread and the member that made the thread subject, which is where the #1 entered into the picture. But the #1 wasn't the point of the whole thing. The point started when the conversation drifted towards the beating fdc thing based on using the vault as the judge with points crunched by a fdc user for amd_users............. something lost in the translation evidently. As the wife always tells me, whatever....... :)

[AMDave]

Reading from the top I understand your drift. The interpretation would indeed have been different if ruskris's post had been in a new thread. This happens from time to time when a new conversation starts up on the tail of an old thread.

We have always tended to benchmark against fdc because we both have touched many (almost all) projects and most of the time we are the chaser. No question the vault balance changed because the vault recorded results jumps by us in projects not frequented by fdc. It is more a sign of breadth than depth.

Good to see a liberal use of smilies.
"whatever" :lol: You get that too? :lol:

[russkris]

And all I did was pop over to say a friendly congrats, and I get shot down, my Vault gets shot down...

Doesn't anyone have FUN anymore.....

Thank very much, and here I was thinking the AMD users was a great plae to hang..

Yeah! Thanks Guys,.... Ya realy know how to make a person feel good...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y261/GawkyEndymion000/carcrash.gif

[Lagu]

Russkris!

Don’t take it personally. Your purpose was good and you aren’t a bad human :!: Sometimes it happens another peoples have another option and it is their right and we will try to listen and be tolerant.

Even I have been critiqued for my not perfect English but I was thinking I should sleep on night. After that my emotional stress was away.

And you Brucifer make me surprised. I didn’t know your team is Free-DC and you yet are running for AMDusers. And that Bok is a friend to you. What a kind person you are. I will say a BIG thank from me personally for helping us crunch.

Lagu ;) :D

[Brucifer]

And all I did was pop over to say a friendly congrats, and I get shot down, my Vault gets shot down... SNIP



@russkris -- You did nothing wrong here and your congratulating the team for the #1 was a kind and polite thing to do and is appreciated. Your DC_Vault wasn't shot down either. It's a fun thing for those that play in it and a large number of people do. So you shouldn't take any of this as anything against you. It was/is a purely internal *philosophical* thing regarding points generation, application, and interpretation between me and a comment or two here among and_users.

You have a wide following on the DCV. It's a kick to play. My coments only reflected that it shouldn't be used as a measure of a team's strength as every team listed may or maynot be concerned about where they fall in the ranking. That has absolutely nothing to do about you. You have a good product that reflects a lot of work and devotion on your part and that is admired by the greatest majority of people in the DC world. I am sorry if you feel that you were cast in a negative light. If you read back, you will see that I referred to the #1 as comming from the original starter of the thread, which was not your congratualtory comment to the team. It is a good team, and it is a good place to hang out. Please keep up your good work on the DCV.

[Brucifer]

To everyone else, if my comments have offended you I'm sorry as that was not the intent. I learned a lesson from this.

[Steve Lux]

Some of us here on the AMD Users team pay as little attention to the DC Vault rankings and scores as apparently some FDC team members do. To me only a very few projects are worth the time of my computers. In the context of what I find to be of value I'll help out the team, but if I don't see the value of a project then I doubt I'll help the team with its rankings in that area.

I'll help where I think the effort can better the human condition, but to be clear I see little value in locating prime numbers and counting key strokes compared to the effort to find cures for diseases or to understand the trends of climate change. In the areas that are intended to preserve humanity and solve issues of life and death I'll do what I can, but all else is secondary. To me it's an issue of what we need to learn vs. what we want to learn.

Now, if I had a big farm where I could justify a little extra while ensuring that the "real" work is being done, well that might be a different situation. If some consider me disloyal because I don't support every call to arms of the moment, well they need only consider that all of what I do produce is in fact credited to the team. My preference with the resources I have is to pick my projects carefully and apply slow and steady pressure to them.

[NeoGen]

Calls to arms are not mandatory at all, they never were, and I hope no one thinks they are. From what I've always seen here, everyone is encouraged to crunch what they like the most, and I'm actually thankful that not everyone responds to the calls of arms, or else we would make great races on 1 or 2 projects and great falls on the other 50 projects.

Bottomline... crunch what you like the most guys, and if it happens that we're doing a call to arms on a project that you like then you can even help us out a little on it if you want. :)