IBM Duo Core

[Brucifer]

ya ya ya.... :) I know this is an AMD group. But just wondering if any of the members have picked up one of the new duo cores for working on those projects where the amd just doesn't work as well? If so, any issues with heating? What are you running it on?

No I didn't buy one, i just picked up another X2 3800 as the price was really right and I just felt like I needed a little "pick me up" to replace one of my old XP1800+ systems. Just a teensy bit more bang for the buck, and I really only mess with projects that the AMD works best on.

As for the macs, my son picked up one of the ibm dual cores, and he also picked up one of those notebooks and is now going through the battery game. Both are nice systems, but I think I'll just stick with the amd X2's.

[Nflight]

I too would like to to know the results of this query?

[Strongbow]

Do you mean Intel's Core Duo? ...as the IBM Power 5+ dual cores are a little too expensive for the average home user!

I'm considering getting one for my next cuncher/HTPC, found that the E6600 (2.4GHz) seems the best value at the moment as the E6700 (2.67GHz) and the X6800 (2.93GHz) are well over priced.

If I do go for one then I'll probably throw it on an Asus P5W DH Deluxe and O/C it up a couple of notches!

From what I've seen and read they are very competitive with regards to heat/power when compared with the current AMD FX62s, which is more than can be said for the new 16MB L3 Tulsa's when compared with Opterons - but they're in a different league altogether anyway!

[NVM]

the Conroe is by far the best cpu out on the market right now. in the seesaw AMD/Intel battle of superiority, Intel has spanked AMD's ass BIGTIME with this new chip.

[Brucifer]

the Conroe is by far the best cpu out on the market right now. in the seesaw AMD/Intel battle of superiority, Intel has spanked AMD's ass BIGTIME with this new chip.

Specifically why? When used for what? As with any chip, it has both good and bad. So it would have to be qualified as for instance what projects are best? What are poor. The memory pipeline has a significant impact on many projects, and thus one cpu is better than another.

And how does it rate in heat/power?

The reason I asked the question to begin with is that I'm hearing lots of stories about high heat and power consumption. So that's a primary concern for me. Also is what projects the chip is best for. It may be really really good at something I just positively hate crunching.... :) whereas the amd may be really really good at something I just love crunching. :) etc. I don't consider any one cpu out there the best there is. Cause there isn't any one cpu that's the best at everything. You have to look at the intended use/utilization to determine which cpu will best accomodate your end use.

And yes, I'd just love an IBM Power 5 or two..... :)

[Strongbow]

Brucifer,

You're quite right - take Riesel Sieve BOINC as an example: It really favours AMD over Intel giving a comparable AMD chip approx. 4x the performance.

The Core 2 Duo processors are great processors and will suit my needs for a high end quiet HTPC and casual crunching system, but if I can get a decent price for an Athlon then I have no issue with that either!

Regarding power/heat, have a look at the table below and you'll understand where I was coming from...

Core 2 Extreme X6800 75 W TDP (Thermal Design Power)
Core 2 Duo E6700 65 W TDP
Core 2 Duo E6600 65 W TDP
Core 2 Duo E6400 65 W TDP
Core 2 Duo E6300 65 W TDP
Pentium D 950 115 W TDP
Pentium D 840 130 W TDP
Athlon 64 FX-62 125 W TDP
Athlon 64 4800+ 95 W TDP

[Brucifer]

om...

Core 2 Extreme X6800 75 W TDP (Thermal Design Power)
Core 2 Duo E6700 65 W TDP
Core 2 Duo E6600 65 W TDP
Core 2 Duo E6400 65 W TDP
Core 2 Duo E6300 65 W TDP
Pentium D 950 115 W TDP
Pentium D 840 130 W TDP
Athlon 64 FX-62 125 W TDP
Athlon 64 4800+ 95 W TDP


That chart doesn't show the AMD-64 X2 65w chips...... So the power game is the same between the late chip series between both. But it's nice to see that the intel got the power/heat down to the same. So I guess you just purchase cpu's according to your crunching preference now. :)

[Ototero]

Intel and AMD don't measure their TDP in the same way.

From what I understand, Intel give a TDP under "normal" operating environments (which does not mean "a maxed out cpu).

AMD gives a TDP for a maxed out cpu.

I could be wrong of course.

[AMD-USR_JL]

the Conroe is by far the best cpu out on the market right now. in the seesaw AMD/Intel battle of superiority, Intel has spanked AMD's ass BIGTIME with this new chip.

I think it's more like Intel has just brought out their can. Here is my prediction:

http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/364/amdvintelou5.jpg
Intel can only bring out their can, but AMD can bring it out, put it on the table, and open it. :mrgreen:

[Strongbow]

Intel and AMD don't measure their TDP in the same way.

Not so with TDP, as they are both meant to use the same governed formula for their calculations. Although neither will provide warranties on the accuracy of their calculations!

However, Intel does not include the memory controller as it is not part of the processor so they have a slight advantage straightaway - in the server market where you would compare Woodcrest/Tulsa against Opteron's then the memory controller for Intel can add ~20Watts whilst the Optry's of course have it built in. I'm not sure what the Watt is for the Core2Duo mem controller though?

[Brucifer]

In other words, intel is still playing word games cause they can't play on the "level" field?????? hahahahhahahhahahahhahahahaha

On the serious side though, I don't know why they don't just tell it like it is and let the chips fall. There ISN'T any one top chip (at least not in the world that the masses can afford), but there IS a better chip to use for the specific job you are doing. Why can't the advertizing just reflect that, and maybe tell the TRUTH for a change. I know, I know, ................. telling the truth is SO old fashioned.

:)

[Keith75]

I think the Core 2 Duo, god that is a retarded name, is the best chip you can get right now. They also overclock very well.

I am going to stick with AMD and see what they come out with next. The only way I would consider trying an Intel is if they come out with their quad core version and AMD still hasn't got anything better to compete with it.

Keith

[Keith75]

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2012121,00.asp

I hope AMD has something up their sleeve.

[AMD-USR_JL]

AMD 65nm Chips are on Track (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=34147)
AMD is about to take their can out. :D

[mitchellds]

the conroes are impressive. Many people are reporting a 80-100% overclock capability, especially the e6300 model, with it common to OC these to around 3ghz easily at stock voltage. I think I'll build one myself to see firsthand. :idea:

[Brucifer]

yup, that's really what you have to do. There is so much FUD flying around about everything and anything that the only way you can get your own questions answered is to do it yourself it seems. :)

[vaughan]

I have a 6300 and Asrock m/b on order so should be able to report results soon.

[Nflight]

I think all of us would love to hear your results on your build and actual OC! :!:

[mitchellds]

Hey Vaughn, Got your new toy cooking yet?

I just bought a e6300 and Asus P5B mb, 1gb memory and 200gb sata2 drive to check out also. I'm gonna hook this up to my water cooler and OC this puppy until I can boil eggs. :lol:

[Keith75]

I am really torn about upgrading my main gaming machine. After alot of thought I guess I will stick with AMD since I can get an AM2 MB and it is supposed to be compatible with their next generation of quad core chips.

Keith

[Brucifer]

It would be nice to know how the Duo does on some things like sieving that AMD's do real well on. I'm not in a rush to head out and buy one instead of another X2 until I know what it's good at. Presently the only stuff I really crunch are the ones that amd favors.

[vaughan]

Hey Vaughn, Got your new toy cooking yet?

I just bought a e6300 and Asus P5B mb, 1gb memory and 200gb sata2 drive to check out also. I'm gonna hook this up to my water cooler and OC this puppy until I can boil eggs. :lol:
No Mitchell.
The supplier refused to supply the m/b I chose as it required a recent version of the BIOS to support Conroe and he couldn't guarantee that when he ordered from his wholesaler. Also, it required a GPU instead of onboard graphics to run at fsb1066. I cancelled that order.

Instead I purchased from my local supplier an E6600 and Asrock 775dual-vsta motherboard. Haven't had a chance to build it yet. Probably my weekend task. :)

[vaughan]

I am really torn about upgrading my main gaming machine. After alot of thought I guess I will stick with AMD since I can get an AM2 MB and it is supposed to be compatible with their next generation of quad core chips.

Keith
I think these are being released H2 2007 by AMD. Tomshardware has a story on the quad-core Intel Kentsfield which should be available soon.

[Brucifer]

what's the price on the quad going to be like? I didn't see any reference to that. Prolly going to be steep though.

[Strongbow]

Instead I purchased from my local supplier an E6600 and Asrock 775dual-vsta motherboard.

Nice processor but why the Asrock? :?

[vaughan]

what's the price on the quad going to be like? I didn't see any reference to that. Prolly going to be steep though.

Just above the table in the middle of Page 14 (http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/09/10/four_cores_on_the_rampage/page14.html) it says "Intel intends to offer the top-of-the-line version of the Core 2 Quadro for about $1,000. The customer will bring home a quad-core 2.66 GHz processor with 8 MB of L2 cache."

So start saving your pennies :lol: :thumbup:

[Strongbow]

6MB of L3 for each core as well! :shock:

[NeoGen]

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/09/10/four_cores_on_the_rampage/page3.html#power_consumption_core_2_duo_vs_quadro_ vs_pentium_ee

At full load, it eats up 260 W worth of energy.
:shock: :shock: :shock:

Ouch... hurts on the electric bill... :?

[Strongbow]

6MB of L3 for each core as well! :shock:

oops, I was talking about Tukwila!

[Keith75]

Yeah, I had heard the quad core kentsfield would be out in about a month or so. I was really hoping that AMD was going to have their next chip out around the end of the year instead of next Summer but that may be wishful thinking. I really don't know what MB and chipset is the best to get with a Core 2 Duo. Familiarity is worth alot but I am really thinking about trying Intel again. I am burned on MSI and think I might try an Asus board next time. I really loved MSI until I got this K8N Neo4 Platinum that has a bug causing it not to post over 219MHz. Has some other wierd problems also and it turns out that they released two newer versions of the board that supposedly fixed it.

Keith

[Brucifer]

There's some tough decisions there really for the farmer. Having a 4 proc system definitely adds to the farm, but that is a lot of bucks to put into one system when you haven't added the board or memory to it, plus the power supply cause you'll need a hefty PS cause you still have to support the other "peripherals" to the system. And then if it craps out the fun starts. There's going to be some serious negotiations starting on returns, local shops, mail-in joints, etc. And you're out of business while waiting for the replacement whatever. And the juice it's drawing flat out doesn't equate to any of this 65watt stuff. Current X2's are rated at 65watts. So there's issues there that still need to be looked at. And again, I'm looking at stuff from the farmers perspective. If I was after *one* system for crunching and playing games, etc., then no doubt I'd be after a 4core just because of the space thing. But after looking at it and forgetting the space issue for my farm, it really doesn't look quite so hot from a bang per buck view.

I can stuff a couple of my X2 systems together that gives me 4 cores equiv, and the price is half of the cost of the 4 core duo processor alone. So it's gonna be a while from the purely financial aspect before I can jump into the game with one. Something about putting all the eggs in one basket......

Another thing is we haven't really seen any of them produce in a distributed computing scenario, running max out 24/7. What are they really good at, and what isn't so hot. There's still differences in the memory design/pipeline, which impacts performance for different projects.

And when AMD brings theirs out, it's going to be an expensive bugger too, so there will be the same cost basis issues there also until the price comes down in a year or two. While this is all really neat from the performance perspective, it's sure going to get pricey. Just like the dual core amd's were when they first hit the streets.

[Steve Lux]

But the price for the stuff we know, and the stuff we know how to tweek will just go down as new stuff comes off the line. If you can tweek a cheap Opty 165 to put out more WU's than any stock duo on the market, then why go the extra expense?

I have recorded Mitro's efforts and done a bit more research to add to the info he gave us. I'd rather spend half the $$ and get more wu's from it than worry about cutting edge compatibility and productivity issues.

As soon as I can free up another $1000 I'm going to build another system.

[gatekeeper53]

I just built a box with this chip and I'm thrilled to death. I think (if I can get mama's ok) I might just send for it's brother. The heat sink is about the size of a '53 Buick and I went ahead and used it, I've had it running at 3.0 for a week crunching and not one missed cycle. It is a little warm at 60 but that's 24/7 of 100% and OC'd, I spent under $500 upgrading from a 3200+ and this sucker out runs both of my 3500+'s together by it's lonesome.

[gatekeeper53]

This is the chip from the previous message.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103544

[Frederic Brillouet]

dudes i must say the damn core 2 duo is fast... a mate of mine has an e6600 and an asus P5W DH Deluxe mobo. when it's oc'ed (to approx 3.7 GHz) it runs superpi 1M in 13 seconds, I saw it do it! and it's "only" cooled by a zalman 9500 cooler. i sure hope amd kicks intels butt back again though...

[gatekeeper53]

I agree with Bruce, I have a price alert with newegg and when the quads come out i expect for the 4800+ to drop below $200 when they do I'm ordering 4 of them. I bet I still won't spend as much as a cheap quad and I'll have 8 new cores. I already have 4 machines running w/939 boards and it'll just be a matter of dropping them in. I was going to the new boards but, I have to much ddr memory running around here to go to ddr2.

[Beerknurd]

I want a 5200+ chip... I should have one in a few months...

[Brucifer]

I have no doubt that the e6600 is a nice chip to have. And if you go from the engineering viewpoint then intel has a good chip. If you go from a cost viewpoint then things change. Engineering is cool and all, but that doesn't necessarily dictate what is going to win out. What happened with IBM and their microchannel stuff... it was cool engineering wise, but cost wise it was pricey. Look at the DEC Alpha for instance, a real smoker, or the Power chip, also a real smoker. The G5 is very impressive, it will blow the socks off anything comparably priced for PSP sieving. Unfortunately there was one little thing and that was the cost. People couldn't just stack them up for farms. If intel doesn't get the price down on the core 2 duo high end chip, then it isn't going to be in production for too long cause if it doesn't sell, the corporate bean counters will stop the production.

I would love to have one. But I can buy more amd crunching horsepower for the same price with the net outcome that the e6600 just isn't on my purchasing screen at all. And comming from the corporate server room/network engineer, there's a lot of companies that view it from that perspective too. The days of the IT gang being able to just buy anything and everything aren't really there now as they were not too long ago in computer history. As far as the DC orld goes, who will benefit from the chip? The crunchers that have access to the corporate e6600's, and they will rack up the points. So a small number of crunchers will make out. But the bulk of us aren't going to see them (e6600's) for quite some time.

I'm not really worried though cause as mentioned above in another note, amd hasn't opened their "can" yet. And then intel will open another can, and on and on. But for the bulk of us, "cost" is a major consideration and ultimately has the most impact on what we buy. Henry Ford demonstrated that little lesson quite some time ago, and it still applies. :)