Where do I turn? [Archive] - AMD Users.com - Distributed Computing Team

Arminiusc

10-29-2003, 10:13 PM

Generally speaking it is easier to o/c by upping the front side bus (FSB) frequency. Doing this offers 2 benefits.
1) You dont have to worry about having to unlock your cpu in order to change the multiplier.
2) AMD durons and athlon love higher fsb settings more than upping the cpu multiplier.
You could try upping the fsb by 5mhz at a time and if the system starts acting funny then you need to bring it back down.
Also... and this is a BIGGY!!! Know How To Clear Your CMOS Before You Start!!! There is usually a jumper on the motherboard to clear your cmos and restore your bios settings to factory default. Messing with bios settings can cause your system not to boot at all!
If you have some good memory then overclocking through the FSB is excellent. If your memory doesnt like being overclocked along with your cpu then you can look into unlocking your cpu and upping your cpu multiplier.

Anonymous

10-30-2003, 01:30 AM

Awesome, thanks...lemme ask a couple more questions (I'm not afraid to ask dumb questions, I don't have a big ego!)

What does CMOS stand for and how do you reset it?

When you reset it, what will it change when I do restart my computer? Will it just be same old windows xp, resolution etc. just the original speed?

Overclocking the frontside bus overclocks memory along with computer? Is that what you're saying? Does it overclock anything else too?

My memory is 128MB of DDR 2100...is that good or bad for overclocking? If you need the actual brand, let me know and I'll shut off my computer and take a look.

Anonymous

10-30-2003, 02:16 AM

Im not sure what CMOS stands for. It has something to do with BIOS. To reset mine, I just put the battery in backwards on the motherboard. Be careful, I don't want to mess up your board.

Overclocking the FSB overclocks the RAM and I believe the PCI Bus.

I dunno though.

Jeff

Arminiusc

10-30-2003, 02:27 AM

Here is a link to a definition of CMOS http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/C/CMOS.html

Basically it is a memory chip on the motherboard that holds the date and time along with your bios settings. The little battery on the M/B supplies power to the CMOS chip so it doesnt lose the information. There is a jumper on the M/B that is used to bypass the battery and clear the cmos chip. This does not affect your windows settings. All it does is set your M/B bios settings back to factory defaults and messes up your computers clock that you can reset in windows.
DDR 2100 is meant to be run on a 266mhz bus. DDR1600 is a 200mhz speed. Since your Duron is probably on a 200mhz bus you should be ok with your memory.
Overclocking your front side bus overclocks your memory, pci and agp slots. If something that you have on one of those slots doesnt like the higher speed then your system might lock up and you would have to lower your FSB some.
Goto the gigabyte web site and download the manual for your motherboard if you dont have it. The manual will tell you where the jumper is for clearing the CMOS and it will tell you how to change your FSB.

Arminiusc

10-30-2003, 02:54 AM

Interesting way of clearing your cmos Jeff. :)
You are the first person I have heard of doing it that way... :)

Jeff

10-30-2003, 04:01 AM

haha, I couldn't figure out another way. but it works!!

Arminiusc

10-30-2003, 04:33 AM

As long as it works... Thats the main thing... I will keep that in mind if I come across a M/B that wont clear any other way... always good to have options! :)

chaz

10-30-2003, 02:19 PM

He's using WinXP.... 128mb of ram isnt going to cut it. Upgrading to 256 would help, but 512 would probably see a big improvement(even without overclocking).With that board looks like it has 2 dimm slots, 1 256 stick wouldnt cost too much.If you do decide to increase your ram, try to get the same kind as what you are already using, or you risk blue screen "page_fault_in_nonpaged_area" errors. Also if this is an OE computer, Gateway Compaq, HP, Dell, etc, dump alot of the icons down by the clock that arent in use. Alot of those puters come with a bunch of crap installed that some ppl never use, they just sit there and consume memory.Also Antivirus set to "Autoprotect" scans every single file your open in the background and slows you down too, you could turn off autoprotect too at your own risk, and still scan mail automatically(I have no antivirus for over a year now and have had no problems whatsoever).
With integrated video i dont see being able to push the fsb too far, imho.

Bionic_Redneck

10-30-2003, 03:42 PM

to clear bios you can just remove battery no need to put it in backwards but typically you would unplug computer and short out jumpers for cmos clear for 3 seconds then put jumper back to it's correct position before plugging computer back in or you will damage your motherboard.

Arminiusc

10-30-2003, 10:29 PM

Chaz, that is good advice... WinXP is a memory hog... And OEM's do put too much crap on the computer which slows it down. I also run my antivirus as diasabled while letting it check my email and I dont get viruses... but then again... I dont open attachments either! :)
If more than 1 person operates the computer though, I would not disable the antivirus.

Anonymous

10-31-2003, 08:14 PM

I don't even bother with antivirus, I can always format, I have a couple rewritable cds where I put my saved games and pictures and stuff...it's useful. :)

Okay, cmos resetting out of the way (thanks a bunch)..

My pci things don't have anyting in them, only the agp video card. GeForce 2 mx400/400 piece of crap...

Yeah, I know a bit more memory would always help...I'm working on that, but a new processor (2ghz athlon or duron, don't remember which off hand) video card (geforce fx, don't remember exact model off hand, it's in my wishlist on newegg) and 512 of memory will cost me 222 dollars so if I reallllly screw things up, it won't be too hard to come up with a better computer..a month and a half of work or so.

Now you said to go find the manuel and it should say, right? I'll go do that and come back and complain after reading it all the way through if I don't find it out how.. :) thanks!

Anonymous

10-31-2003, 08:18 PM

Albatron Geforce FX 5200 AGP 8X Video card Model FX5200EP Retail

AMD ATHLON XP 2400+ /266 FSB PROCESSOR CPU - RETAIL

There we go :) I heard albatron geforces aren't too good, but there's absolutely no possible way it could be worse than a gf2 lol

chaz

11-01-2003, 12:02 AM

That 2400 wont do alot of good if youre trying to run XP on 128mb of ram. I'd sacrifice the vid card($69) and get the memory instead. You'd see a big difference just from the ram increase even without the processor i bet. My system is using 154mb of ram doing nothing at all but viewing this web page...........256 sticks at newegg start at 39 dollars, the Apacers use infinoen chips and are cheap.And you might check your power supply also, if you have alot of devices RAID CD CDRW DVD etc, you will want a decent power supply too. Or post your power ratings here and we can help you decide if you got enough juice.

Anonymous

11-01-2003, 12:40 AM

Yeah, I added in the 512 memory with my post, guess you missed it... :)

Anyway, I got my cpu to like 1430...I went a bit higher but it locked up while I was playing max payne 2..but man, it looked soooo much better in the game than normal and I didn't change any settings.

Gigabyte lets you have a program called easytune, that's what I used to do it. Thank you all for all your help! Especially the help with the CMOS stuff, hopefully I'll never have to use it though.

I do have one other question, though, for anyone who's ever used easytune... There are two circles on the left hand side of the program which load for a second, then close again when I choose advanced mode. Any ideas how to fix that? Also, it won't let me do the multiplier, but I know that won't work because I didn't unlock the processor.

Will buying another fan make me able to go any higher, or what will that need? Don't say memory again! I know, I know...get more! I will try to get another 128 tonight. :)

How do you check power? I'm gonna run to pc club real quick and check on fans and memory right now, so I'll be back in like 20 minutes.

Here's a link to a picture of the part I'm talking about.
http://home.comcast.net/~since1876/Untitled-1.gif

Bionic_Redneck

11-01-2003, 04:58 PM

If temps are ok you can try and raise vcore up a little that should increase stablity but durons aren't as good as athlon as far as overclocking goes plus are harder to cool due to less surface area than their xp counter parts. probly the best bang for the buck you can do to your system is to upgrade your cpu. the low speed tbred are very good buys and overclock great. btw one big stick of ram will overclock better than 2 or 3 smaller ones will. I think you can get a xp 1800+ or 1900+ for around $50 it would be a major feat to get a duron to preform at the level of eithier one of these cpus.

Anonymous

11-01-2003, 07:28 PM

I cant say enough about the Ram, as much as I know you dont want to hear it..I saw the 512mb of ram, but it shouldnt run you 222 dollars. Newegg is much cheaper and if your in the U.S. they can have it to you in 3-4 days or less depending on where you are.
What is this computer mainly used for?
Games- At least another 256mb memory and a good vid card and keep the Duron(unless you have extra cash)
Distributed Computing- At least another 256mb memory and Processor. Check you mainboard specs, some will only go up to a 2100 palomino, and dont support Tbred XP's.

I have 1 machine with a 2400, GF4MX440 and 256mb ram, and it doesnt play BF1942 for s***. I have more ram coming :)

I wouldnt bother with extra fans unless your temperatures are in the 50-60 Celcius range, and extra case fan may help some but you wont see a big temp drop.
Your power supply should have a sticker on the side stating its wattage and voltage ratings, for example:
400W combined power 380w
+3.3 28A
+5 40A
+12 17A

This could be a factor when upgrading processors too you dont want to underpower you components or you could have problems, the bigger and faster you go the more juice you will need to keep stable.

Pay close attention if you get a video card, some of the new ones are designed specifically for low power AGP slots.

chaz

11-01-2003, 07:42 PM

That 7VKMP supports XP's up to 2800 with the F2 bios. If you do decide to up the ram might be better off with selling off yourt 128 pc2100 to a buddy or something, and go with PC2700.. this way if you dont want to up the processor just yet, you will be able to move up to a 333fsb processor without changing ram later.
Like Bionic said an XP will outperform that Duron anyday.

Anonymous

11-01-2003, 08:07 PM

Chaz, thanks so much for giving me the suggestion of going with 2700, I just looked it up and it's only like 3 bucks more...I'm soooooooooo glad I checked here before I hit my order! From what I understand about ram, it just clocks itself down to whatever your limit is, then if the limit changes it goes back up on its own, right?

As for guest, I didn't say just the memory cost me 200 dollars...I said all the stuff I wanted to get costs me that much. :) --And now that I looked back at it, it does kind of sound like I'm saying just the memory costs that! Sorry! It's all 3 that costs that, plus I added an audio card to my list of shit to buy...that can wait though, considering I can hear things.. but my surround sound speakers are just being wasted right now lol

I have the memory in my cart now, I will order that right now, it'll probably be here by wednesday. With the 2700 ram, I can just buy a 2800 athlon and pop it in no problems, right? I might decide to buy one of those now too, so if I check the prices, I'll hang on before I order, to be sure it works. They won't process it until Monday, anyhow.

I feel soooooo dumb asking all these questions, and I'm sorry they sound stupid, but it's the only way I'll learn. Don't worry, I won't ask how to install ram or video cards.. :D

I think I'm gonna just register for this forum lol...it'll be since1876

Bionic_Redneck

11-01-2003, 08:18 PM

although there is nothing wrong with having ddr 2700 the 7VKMP uses 266 fsb so the ram wouldn't be used to it's full potential. I have both speed of ddr but only kt266a chipsets boards and 157mz fsb runs fine with ddr 2100 any higher and network card losses connection occationally so I don't see any reason to replace the ram and 150 fsb should be fine. I have only bought a couple of tbreds but all were unlock already but paliminos are notand from what I hear barton aren't eithier

Anonymous

11-01-2003, 08:54 PM

Processor's too much lol...130 minimum, unless I searched wrong...doesn't matter, I'll live with just ram and a video card

Arminiusc

11-01-2003, 10:37 PM

since1876

11-01-2003, 10:56 PM

One thing you could look at is your CAS latency on your ram in the bios. Set it to 2 if it is not already... should give at least 5% more performance if it doesnt lock your system up.
I was going to suggest you use the easy tune but I didnt see your M/B listed as being supported... but hey... as long as it works! :D

I've got memory and a video card on their way, so I won't bother doing something that might lock my computer right now... ;)

Yeah most of it works, except the two circles that I posted a picture of up there...know how to fix that?

Also, my logic says to reclock my computer to default before installing my video and ram...that a smart idea or does it really not make a big difference? I probably will anyway, just curious. Not like it's hard to put back to how I have it now. :)

since1876

11-01-2003, 11:14 PM

Oh yeah, you wanted my voltage and stuff..

Codegen 350W

INPUT
115V/230V~,8/4 A
60/50hz

Output 350 Watts
+3.3V 20 A ORANGE
+5V 30 A RED
+12V 12 A YELLOW
+5VSB 2 A PURPLE
- 5V .5 A WHITE
- 12 .8 A BLUE
PS ON GREEN
P G GREY

Not sure what all that means, but I'm sure you all do.

Bionic_Redneck

11-02-2003, 12:08 AM

you must have been looking at the wrong place newegg has XP 1900+ palimino or XP 1800+ tbred eithier one for $52 including shipping. the palimino would cool easier but the tbred would overclock higher and come unlocked. just don't get a boxed cpu it's just comes with a heatsink and a longer warranty which would be voided as soon as you overclock it and the heatsink is terrible. look for oem. a couple of programs I have used with windows is cpufsb and motherboard monitor. I wih there was something similar to cpufsb for linux. :cry:

since1876

11-02-2003, 12:37 AM

I just got a video card and ram, I'll deal with processor later, I already have 1.4 and it's not like that's extremely extremely slow right now for most stuff...but I'll definitely keep those cpus in mind for later when I have some more money or when I feel like 1.4 won't cut it anymore.. ;) Definitely when half-life 2 comes out! lol

Aren't you linux people supposed to be good at programming? Write your own! ;)

vaughan

11-02-2003, 04:39 AM

HRM I also find EasyTune4 doesn't allow access to the buttons you hi-lighted. It would be better named HardTune :P

chaz

11-02-2003, 10:24 AM

since1876, i screwed up Bionic is right that board doesnt support a 333mhz CPU. I must have been looking at the wrong one. ](*,) But yes the PC 2700 is backward compatible and will run normally with a slower bus speed.

My apologies.

since1876

11-02-2003, 02:06 PM

I'LL KILL YOU CHAZ!!!!!! I'm kidding. Everyone messes up, except me, of course! Anyway, I ordered 2700 ram, I'll eventually use it's maximum capacity one day. Unless I jump over it...but oh well. Anyway, it'll clock itself down to 2100 you said, so can I use it with the other 128 or do I have to pawn that off? Either way, I don't think 128 more will be all that much more helpful, but it'd always be nice to still be able to use it. :)

http://america.giga-byte.com/MotherBoard/FileList/Manual/manual_7vkmp_e.pdf there's my manuel so you don't get confused again chaz ;)

since1876

11-02-2003, 02:33 PM

HRM I also find EasyTune4 doesn't allow access to the buttons you hi-lighted. It would be better named HardTune :P

Think it's because the processor's not unlocked? I'm gonna go check out the help files and the website and see if I can figure it out.

chaz

11-02-2003, 05:20 PM

Its best not to mix and match memory, but sometimes you get lucky. Try and see, you should put the largest of the two in the first dimm slot though. if you get page fault erors then they dont mix well and 1 will have to come out.

Actually there was an XP 2800 with a 266mhz bus.......but good luck finding one at a reasonable price.

http://www.memory4less.com/m4l_itemdetail.asp?itemid=2507698

The pc2700 will better your chances of overclocking later too.

since1876

11-02-2003, 06:29 PM

I found one kinda like it on newegg for like 230 I think, I just closed it but do a search for 266 fsb and you can maybe find it again...it should be on the second page.

(edit)
AMD Athlon MP 2800 2.08GHz PROCESSOR CPU - Retail
Specifications:
CPU: 2.08GHz
Type: 2800 MP
Cache: 512K
Core: Barton
BUS: 266MHz
Socket A (PGA)
Retail Box (with Heatsink and fan See pics) Model#: AMSN2800BOX Special Free FedEx Saver Shipping

My brother seems to think that MPs come unlocked.. Like I said though, I'll worry about processors later. :)

Just 2 or 3 more days... :fist:

Bionic_Redneck

11-02-2003, 07:57 PM

you shouldn't have a problem using ddr 2100 and 2700 together also MP should be unlocked but for the price difference you could just buy a faster XP. before buying a cpu you might want to check the processors core and speed your board will support before buying.

since1876

11-02-2003, 08:22 PM

I take it the processor's core isn't the 266 bus thing we were talking about before then, right? I'll go take a look at that manuel again. So convenient that I posted a link to it! :D

Anonymous

11-03-2003, 06:25 AM

You need a 266mhz bus processor. That MP will work, but its more expensive than an equivalent XP Processor. The link i posted above is an XP, but even though they exist, the 2400XP would be most cost effective, they were coming unlocked last i knew and can be overclocked pretty easy too.
I'll bet a 266 2600/2800 runs a mint

chaz

11-03-2003, 06:27 AM

thats me again lots o login probs these days

Jeff

11-03-2003, 11:58 AM

since1876

11-03-2003, 12:30 PM

chaz

11-03-2003, 12:54 PM

What is wrong with the login process? I know that sometimes I'll have to login in several times before it actually shows me logged in. Be detailed about your issue. Then I will email my web host and post a topic in the forum's creator page.

Jeff

Exactly that, Ive been having to log in several times, and it still show me as a guest, also when I log out, it says "logged out" but I'm not........... ?

Bionic_Redneck

11-03-2003, 03:16 PM

bionic says to check the speed and the processor core, so in the case of the mp I said, it'd be 266 and barton, right? Does that make sense?

Oh yeah, last night my computer restarted itself 2 times without permission or warning, so was that it overheating? I turned it off all night and put the clock down for now until I find out from you smarty-pants types.

What's the sp part in your name jeff?

The problem with stabilty could be many different things but my guess is you haven't change your vcore as for chaz's comment yes a 2400+ wouldn't be bad but there is more involved than that. some places you can buy cpu's with a particlar stepping newegg is one of those places. If I was buying a cpu I would find out which stepping is getting the best speed. The 1700+'s or 1800+'s tend to have the newer stepping I guess because so many are sold.

since1876

11-03-2003, 07:20 PM

Well, time for another installment of "Stephen's Annoying Questions"; how do you change VCore (Voltage core?)? I remember seeing something about changing voltage in easytune, but like I said, those two circles won't open for me.

Bionic_Redneck

11-03-2003, 08:28 PM

some motherboards can change vcore in bios and others you have to change some of the jumpers on the board. I wouldn't go to much wth the vcore though. it's kind of a paradox you increase vcore to increase stabilty which in turn produces more heat and heat can make it unstable. I don't know what the durons are suppose to have for stock vcore but I wouldn't go over 1.75

Bionic_Redneck

11-03-2003, 09:27 PM

after more investagation easytune 4 has 2 modes appearently you have to be in advance mode to change voltages. http://www.giga-byte.com/MotherBoard/FileList/NewTech/tech_ez4_hlp_intro.htm

Bionic_Redneck

11-03-2003, 11:35 PM

Thanks since1876 I had one of my motherboard burn out last week but already had a epox 8kha+ sitting on a shelf that i put in but I was thinking the highest cpu I could use was a xp 2100+ I guess because the shuttle I have has that limitation but after reading this thread I decided to check what these board can handle I found a bios release that is suppose to make xp 2600+'s stable. these board are a little old tech now but still can run the fsb up high enough for 333 fsb cpus.

since1876

11-04-2003, 01:13 AM

Grr...stupid invalid session, that's what I get for going to that link with this open!

Anyway, I'll check the bios next reboot, but first I'll read the manuel again and try to find out how to do it and maybe see how high I'm allowed to go safely.

I know I have to be in advanced, it still won't work though. I'll go do a bit more investigating of my own.

I'm glad I helped you...guess we're even now, eh? Nah, didn't think so..I still owe you..lol

Arminiusc

11-04-2003, 01:14 AM

Try setting the FSB speed down a few MHZ and see if it resets anymore. It could be overheating of the cpu or your video doesnt like the faster speed. If you are running a stock cpu cooler then it probably isnt cooling your cpu very well.

since1876

11-04-2003, 01:43 AM

My fan and heatsink are supposed to take 2ghz, I'm gonna order a brand new one though, since the other half-built computer needs one anyway, which is 7000 rmp volcano ..

Thermaltake VOLCANO 6Cu+. Heatsink + Dual Ball-Bearing Fan, FAN Speed: 7000±10% RPM. Max. Air Flow: 38CFM. Pure Copper base Retail
Specifications:
Supported Socket type: Socket 370 and Socket A
Dimensions: 80x60x65 mm. Mfr's P/N: A1138/A1175. Model#: VOLCANO 6Cu+

It's only 12 bucks counting shipping...mine says it runs at 5500 according to easytune...I wish I could remember the exact kind I have...I'll go take a look around in my closet for the box, sometimes I save them.

Arminiusc

11-04-2003, 11:31 AM

As far as fans go... you want the slowest RPM with the most CFM if noise is going to be a factor.

chaz

11-04-2003, 12:21 PM

I have 2 volcano 6cu+ heatsinks and they are quite loud and in my opinion they dont cool too well. got one collecting dust, and the other is on a xp1700 non-overclocked, it runs about 48 degrees idle with a 80mm fan mounted to the side of the case blowing fresh cool air at it, the case also has a 2 fan psu, 1 80mm exhaust fan at the rear, and 1 80mm intake fan at the front.
I would invest in a pretty good heatsink if you plan to overclock. Personally I like the Thermalright SK7's but they are quite large and do not come with a fan. In a way its nice, since you can choose whichever fan you like to use with it.You can use 60mm or 80mm fans with it.
Like Arminiusc said less rpm and more cfm will be quieter.
My 2400 is running 2200mhz at 39 degress chewing on Lifemapper and chessbrain at the moment.

chaz

11-04-2003, 12:35 PM

Bionic, do you think steppings are going to make much difference with a KM266 chipset?I've never heard of it before. I know steppings are important in cases where a high-end mobo will take every mhz you can throw at it, but is that chip going to be worth the hassle?I just dont want to make it any more complicated for him than it is at the moment(of course if i could give correct info all the time it would help too ](*,) ).

Bionic_Redneck

11-04-2003, 02:55 PM

well chaz if you have a newer stepping it will overclock higher even if he can't go over the 266 fsb much there is always multipliers. There are people getting the 1700+'s to 2.5 ghz and above and they do come unlock I just wonder how to get the multipliers above 12.5 enabled? I didn't really think about the fact that with xp 2000+ and under they have the lower multipliers. yea are right atleast with a 2400+ you could get above 2 ghz.

Jeff

11-04-2003, 05:46 PM

the 1700+ and the 1800+ are supposed to have crazy steppings that allow them to go over 2.5ghz. I will post a simple overclocking guide at a later time. It explains what to do and about the steppings.

Later
Jeff

Bionic_Redneck

11-04-2003, 06:31 PM

http://www.ocinside.de has a pin mod guide that might be helpful for changing multiplier to one above 12.5

Jeff

11-05-2003, 03:29 AM

A simple AMD overlclocking guide.

http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=gethowto&howtoID=43

since1876

11-06-2003, 04:34 PM

I have my video card and memory now...now I can play games with the settings above lowest. :)

I tried unlocking my duron but I guess it didn't work. I did the pencil thing. I might try again eventually, but it's too much effort for now. I wanna go play with that 3D studio thing over there now :arrow:

Nflight

04-15-2006, 11:59 PM

I think this forum link has provided me with some valuable insight into how OC'ing really has to be a self taught effort. Although the original posts are over 2 1/2 years old, all the links are still good and give some amazing feedback.

Today I learned a unique lesson; overclocking is a masters realm as I FUBAR my 4200+ system by pushing its limits far beyond its capabilities. Its ok, I'm not, I still want to experiment tinkering with all the nuances I just read about. The 4200+ runs SIMAP and my numbers have been going down lately, I though a little push might do the trick. I pushed in relation to twisting ones arm, I twisted till it twinged a bit, but could stay working and not fail. I twisted some more and it hurt but kept running even after 2 days. OK so I have a strong machine, I thought.... Lets push it farther, ouch it snapped, I pushed it to 115% of original settings and it does not like to run at 2.576 Ghz.

For now I am running at 105% until I get my nerve up to return to more excitement.

For those who do try this equation and find yourself in a cycling reboot, you need to enter the bios and return the jumper configuration back to original settings which for me is 200, 210 =105%, 220=110%, 230=115%. Now if there is something I am doing wrong please advise I am still curious and learning is something I adore, even if I could harm my system.

The last link from Spjeff69 "A simple AMD overlclocking guide" is the most help I have found on the net which is free, I am looking at some books from amazon but I really have reservations about something I can teach myself and ask the people on here about for best results. Even if I am going to experiment beyond the capabilities of the machine and have to start all over, now and again.

Reading more this evening as I find that the memory I have installed is good for some nice returns. It would have been better if I had purchased the slower PC2700 rather then the PC3200. Go figure, it takes a lot to understand but the more I read the more my mind resolves this issues that plague my inadequacies of getting this to work at the speed I want. So there are others who have been there before me, let them teach me to BE CAREFUL, as those words mean take it easy don't rush things!