Puter died need advice

[BlackAdder]

Hi Guys, My Asus M3A78-T which is 2 years old died after a reboot yesterday... I have a Phenom2 940 quad,2 gig Corsair ram, Corsair HX620W PSU...I was trying to access vista which is in a second drive, got into the bios, changed boot priority to vista's drive and then nothing after it shut down. The fans cut on, the motherboard power on light is on, no posting of any kind, no beeps, nothing. Below the regulator heat sink next to the processor the MB has a oily film and feel, but I can't see where it is coming from . Could my processor have died instead of the board? Will it still try to post without a processor ? Any ideas ??
Sorry I haven't been around much in a while, after my arm healed from last years accident I have taken on a QC position at work and we are going for the ISO 9001 certification, needless to say I am very busy...still crunching though !! Thanks for any suggestions !

[Dirk Broer]

Do you have any other CPU that you can try on the same Mobo? Can you tru the CPU on another Mobo?

[BlackAdder]

This is a Am2+ mb which is socket 940, I have a Opteron 180 which is 939 pin so it is not compatible. I have just ordered a triple core from newegg to fit this socket which was fairly cheap and put in for a rma with Asus... yea the processor may have died...

[Ramjet]

The only times I've experienced this was with a shorted modem, a bad cdrom drive, a dead Cmos battery, and even once I just had to reseat the cpu. I would suggest unplugging everything possible from the mb except the power supply, remove all the add on cards, check the voltage of the battery and replace if necessary, remove all but one stick of ram, then power it up, if nothing yet, replace the stick of ram with another, or try a different slot, reseat the cpu, try another power supply, you may have one voltage that's out of limits. I've only ever had one cpu go bad, and that was because the mb was bad and fried the cpu immediately upon powering it up.
Good Luck, I hope this helps :)

[AMDave]

Below the regulator heat sink next to the processor the MB has a oily film and feel, but I can't see where it is coming fromThat sounds like capacitor leakage.
The (usually) upright back and blue cylinders on your mobo are the Cap.s
They should all have a silver top that is flat with 3 grooves running from the circumference and meeting in the middle.
/EDIT - some still have 4 grooves - EDIT/
If they get too hot (as they age) they start to bulge outwards.
If they 'blow' you might see a little bit of brown gunk on the silver-top of the Cap. that could be mistaken for fly-sh*t or cockroach-cr*p.
It generally means that the capacitor is dying or has blown out and will be dead shortly if it is not already.

/EDIT - this is actually a safety feature so that they don't boil and then explode, but crack open and leak-out instead - EDIT/

Re the chipset heatsink - if you pull the mobo out, you should be able to release the chipset heatsink from underneath the mobo carefully with some fine-point pliers.
If you do that make sure you have some het-sink paste to put it back on with.

Luckily I have enough bits-and bobs lying around to be able to 'bench-test' my components.
Swap out the PSU, test, Swap out the CPU, test, swap out the RAM, test, etc.
If you can't do that, a couple of choice beers and a slow afternoon at the local PC/electronics shop can work wonders.
I had to do that once, for DN02.
I yanked the mobo without the case PSU or HDD etc
Took it to my preferred PC retailer at the time
The techie found that the RAM had failed AND was part of a bad batch that had been recalled by the manufacturer.
Lucky me.
I was able to get replacement RAM from the seller (keep all of your receipts always!)
I forgot to ask him if he enjoyed the beers. :P

[SuicideCabbage]

That sounds like capacitor leakage.

I originally thought this too, as I have been hit by capacitor plague on more than one occasion, but I did a little research on the board he has and it seems to be using solid capacitors. I've had computers that would not post or beep, and it was solved by a simple BIOS reset. He said he was poking around the BIOS before this happen maybe something did not save correctly. I've also had one that after shutdown would refuse to post unless power was cut (powersupply turned off or unplugged) and all charge was allowed (or forced) to drain, after that it would power right up and run like a champ, until the next time it was shutdown. Whenever I've had RAM or some other component failure the motherboard would angrily beep at me when I attempted to power up.

[AMDave]

You can check that the CMOS battery, if the mobo has one, has leaked.

[BlackAdder]

Well a different question, the board was rma'd and it died about 5 minutes after startup again.... going to send it back again.

I bought a new " OEM " M3A78-T off of Ebay, it runs only with a lowly Athlon X@ dual core 3800+, I have put in two new Phenom2 X3 715's, and a new Phenom2 920. The bios will handle either cpu... it will not post with either cpu, no beep, only the fans run and I think I can hear the hard drives spin up. NOTHING. I tried a hard bios reset , pulled the power cord, cmos battery, and held in the power up button for 10 seconds... still nothing. Does anyone have any ideas on how to make a OEM board act like a retail board ?? I would have thought it made no difference , either board should have full capabilities of whatever the board can do but it seems like it doesn't. I did not however pull out the GeForce video card and try to boot it up with the new cpu's and on board video only, anyone think that may be the problem ?? Thanks all !!

[Dirk Broer]

What makes you think the board can handle the Phenom2 X3 715 or the Phenom2 920? I cannot find the M3A78-T on the ASUS website, so I asume it has the lowest spec of any of the M3A78 boards them do list, the M3A78 PRO, just to be sure. That means yes, it will take the two CPUs you mention on all PCB version, BUT the bios has to be at least 0902 for the 715 and at least 0702 for the 920. Both will in fact transfer you to the download of M3A78 PRO BIOS 1602. What is your current BIOS?

[BlackAdder]

I had a Phenom2 940 in the retail board I have identical to this one, a link to the Asus site on this board is http://usa.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=PaJTmB4aZ9WAYnM6
it is rated to accept the x6's, I have tried bios rev. 1907 which allows the x6's and I pulled the bios chip out of my dead board and it is bios rev. 1904. Neither will even allow the board to beep while trying to post with anything but the athlon 64 X2 3800+. Getting kinda frustrated with this oem board... at least it runs...
This is a link to the ebay auction I bought it through http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270672966628&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
it says in the red letters these were oem bulk pack motherboards

[Dirk Broer]

Thanks for the correct link! The 1907 BIOS should be able to handle both Phenoms, provided you have the right settings. Is the multiplier perhaps locked at a setting the Phenoms have no use for? Can you try to set everything to "automatic"? And indeed try to boot from onboard VGA, and set the BIOS to do so.

[BlackAdder]

I will try to boot up the board using only the on board video this weekend, I have cleared the bios several times hoping it will forget it's old settings and run the new processors, but no luck. I have never had a board do this ever.... something odd is going on with this OEM motherboard. If it was retail I'm sure I would not be having these problems...

[AMDave]

I'm a bit late jumping back into this thread but I have been using a M3A78-EH for a number of years with an AM2 9750 cpu
here's what I know
there are 4 variants of this board and they do have differences in support
M3A87
M3A87-T
M3A87-EH (the one I am using)
M3A87-PRO

even though they should all accept the same BIOS update it does not mean that the board will magically support a newer CPU type that it was not built for so check the manual for the exact CPU naming

As far as I know (and I checked this again on their specs) these boards are all ok for AM2 and AM2+

The M3A87 is noted as being power-low and/or power limited to 140W
I only mention this because the first time I tried to boot my board I had the GPU plugged in but the PSU was not rated for the full power draw of the GPU and the Mobo (plus HHD and fans etc).
Adding the right PSU fixed that issue.
(Hey WOW. The old grey matter still works. How about that!)

The current support listing is "AMD Socket AM2+ / AM2 ;Phenom™ FX /Phenom™ / Athlon™ /Sempron™ Processors" including the 45nm Phenom II

Interestingly that does not include the Athlon X2, just the same as it definitely does not include the X6s (which IIRC are AM3)

However, (and I have the manual in front of me) the original support listing was "AMD Phenom™ FX /Phenom™ / Athlon™ 64 /Sempron™ / Athlon™ 64 FX Processors"

You will note the difference in that the current support list no longer refers to the Athlon 64 or the Athlon 64 X2

If you try a CPU from the current support list in that board and it does not work, then definitely there is something wrong with the board.

for the 'original' reference I am referring to the ASUS publish item "E3681" that came with the board that I purchased.

The Phenom II 940 that you have/had in the other board will work because the Phenom II (X4) 940 was one of the later AM2+ editions. (pre-April 2009)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Phenom_microprocessors#Phenom_II_serie s

The Phenom II (X4) 955 was the AM3 edition after which the state of play changed due to the chipset requirements.

But the Phenom II X3 will not as it is an AM3 CPU which these boards do not support, unless it is very specifically a Phenom II X3 715.
Only 2 of the X4 models might work that are AM2+ (including the 940 that you already have) and none of the X6s will work as they are all AM3.

There was an original theory that came from ASUS - before the AM3 cpu's arrived - that ASUS would be able to patch a BIOS update that would enable them to work.
I never saw anyone say that worked, including ASUS, unfortunately.
Although I may simply be 'unaware'.

I didn't finish my homework there...
Your Althlon 64 X2 also falls into the same category.
I suspect that is also an AM3.
In which case it is also unsupported for that board

Also, if what I suspect turns out to be the case and your documentation says it 'should' work then you should be able to get your money back as you have been led to believe otherwise from the manufacturer &/ OEM's documentation.
(and they had better $#^@^$ check their facts before they sell you the next board!!!)



I am hoping my mutterings are more of a help than a hindrance.

[AMDave]

Drat. I should have read further up again, when you purchased the replacement board, you already tried the 715 and the 920.
They are both AM2+ CPUs and should be ok.
(so all my AM2/AM2+ rambling is moot and more of a hinderance than a help)

BUT they are both high watt CPUs and with a GPU plugged in there would most likely be a boot failure due to the PSU load.

As you say you are going to test with the on-board GPU then it may work, but I think your PSU may be failing if you are still using the HX620w.
It should be capable of 467 watts under load (per model HX620w - the 620w in the model name should NOT be used as a guide)

Good luck. Hope it works. Let us know.

[Dirk Broer]

The ASUS M3A78 family which we are discussing here (NOT the M3A87) has even more members, and comes in four sub-families, chipset wise:

AMD 770
M3A78 (http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=5pvgDAXJUV2orYzn&templete=2) (AMD 770/SB700)
AMD 780G
M3A78-EH (http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=uCLODhTSJV8qW7DQ&templete=2) (AMDave's: AMD 780G/SB700)
M3A78-EM (http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=KjpYqzmAd9vsTM2D&templete=2) (AMD 780G/SB700)
M3A78-EMH HDMI (http://www.asus.com/Product.aspx?P_ID=khuIilXQjwItSrPi)(AMD 780G/SB700)
M3A78-PRO (http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=SChThDvEAJ31GxGV&templete=2) (AMD 780G/SB700)
M3A78-VM (http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=kEbQGBWQ9tyoyP1N&templete=2) (AMD 780G/SB700)
AMD 780V
M3A78-CM (http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=L8sWyNMUTe1HHyAc&templete=2) (AMD 780V/SB700)
AMD790GX
M3A78-T (http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=PaJTmB4aZ9WAYnM6&templete=2) (Blackadder's: AMD 790GX/SB750)

Amongst the M3A78 boards the M3A78-T has the best chipset/southbridge combination. Both the PhenomII 715 and the PhenomII 920 should be supported from BIOS 1907, as can be seen in the tab "CPU SUpport List". The 715 since 1101, the 920 since 0502 (which both reroute to M3A78-T BIOS 1907) The E4018 Manual is the latest edion for the M3A78-T and can be downloaded from the ASUS site.

[AMDave]

A copy-pasted typographical error by me.

All of my references to the board in question in my posts above 'should' say 'M3A78' and not 'M3A87'

That said, all of my points stand.
(In spite of the fact that they were for naught because he already tested the correct AM2+ CPUs and it failed.)

Yes, as I said, the 715 and the 920 'should' work as they are AM2+.

The fact that they don't work leads me to believe that there is something else wrong, hence my reference to the PSU which has not been mentioned as being swapped out as part of the test.
Good luck with that.

[Dirk Broer]

The fact that they don't work leads me to believe that there is something else wrong
Those were my thoughts as well, that's why I advised to test with onboard VGA

[liuqyn]

it also might just be something locked out due to being an OEM board, beyond that I haven't a clue.

[Dirk Broer]

And this all started when you switched the order of start-up disks in order to access a Vista partition? mumph.......
Switched it back to the original start-up disk, have you yet?

[BlackAdder]

Well... I'm running the OEM board with a Antec 650 Blue PSU, should have the wattage but that may be the problem. I did not get to try booting it up with the on board video only yet, it's suppose to rain this saturday here so I may try it then. I have been running my Vista partition since I got it running again, had to call Microsoft to reactivate the license key. I have not booted up Win 7 yet , that was a OEM version I bought from NewEgg so I wanted to get a quad running again so maybe it wouldn't be too much trouble getting that license key to work with something closer to what I had before. I haven't messed with it much lately because I'm thankful it's running at all cause I use the computer for bills, ect. and all my stored usernames and passwords are in these drives. I still have the burned up board and was told by Asus by e-mail to call the service center and ask to speak to a level 2 rma tech. I will do that soon but don't really have the time at work to stay on the phone for who knows how long waiting to talk to some one. I leave the house before 5 and get home after 6 so I would have to call from work..... I will report back with any further info. Thanks guys !!

[BlackAdder]

Well... I talked to a Asus motherboard tech last night... he said certain OEM motherboards have features disabled so it is possible that even though I have a two identical motherboards one will run the Phenom 2 chips and another might not. ( !!!!!! ) He also thought my retail board was not burnt up but had a grounding issue.... to remove it from the case ( has been ) and try to run it on top of a piece of cardboard. WOW..... I will try that for what it's worth and I hope he is right. But........ I wonder how they disable features ??? I would have thought it would be in the bios hidden from view as it were, but I tried to boot up the OEM board with the bios chip from my retail board and still no luck... wonder if there is a hidden jumper somewhere I can find. Anyone run into this before ??

[Dirk Broer]

Do you see anything in the BIOS (using the 1907 BIOS) that is not there, as compared with the manual? Use the latest manual from the ASUS site.
Have you tried a new disk instead of the Vista disk?