BUSH WINS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Beerknurd]

WOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOO

:wav: :wav:

[Keith75]

And we got Matt Blunt instead of the terrible, Claire for Gov.

[Beerknurd]

I take it that's good???

[NeoGen]

No offense, and I don't know next to nothing except what I saw in the telly, but I don't like Bush...
I was thinking to myself just now... "Bush won again... oh joy. Let's celebrate with the families of the soldiers that died on iraq on the account of some mass destruction weapons that never existed..."
Forgive me anyone who feels offended by what I wrote. :-(

[Ototero]

Not offended, perhaps now that it's all over, normality will return to our TVs.

It did get a bit boring (to non Yanks that is)

[Beerknurd]

The main point being is maybe bush could have made better decisions. No president in history has ever made all good decisions. Bush did what he thought was right at the time. Bush can't come out and say "I made a mistake" and withdrawl the troops. You have to at least stay and finish what we started. You can't promise Iraq peace and then run out of there with you tail between your legs. Plus I believe that Bush made a good decision in helping Iraq. We brought a known terrorist/dictator to justice. Nobody likes the fact that our troops are over in Iraq being killed. But we are a generous country and the only way that we are going to build healthy relationships with other countries is to show them that we are willing to help out the less fortunate armies againt terrorist dictator's. We will never get completely rid of terrorists. That's impossible. But at least we can help Iraq build a strong enough government to bring the people that are doing the car bombings, suicide bombings, murders, torturing, and all terrorism to justice. Once Iraq has that kind of government set up we can start to pull our troops out of there slowly.

If John Kerry were elected president he would draw the troops out as soon as he could. Which sounds like a good thing, but if we leave now it will look like everything we did in the past 3 years was a mistake. Which is totally false. For example Saddam Huessain. (Sp??) Plus we will look bad to other countries becasue we can't finish a job. And if we don't finish the job and leave early, the government set up now won't be strong enough, and another dictator like Saddam will take over. And if that happens then yes, we would have been over there for nothing.

Sorry this was so long. I hope I answered all of your questions. If you need clarification on anything or want to argue just post it.

[DMMc]

Not offended, perhaps now that it's all over, normality will return to our TVs.

It did get a bit boring (to non Yanks that is)

Trust me it got just as boring for some of us "Yanks"

Media overkill is a blight that needs to be addressed. Just how many different ways can we be told the same story without further insulting our intellect?
I firmly believe in an informed populous but this pap most media outlets give out is not information, it is propaganda for one side or the other. Mainly a Democrat bent or flavor but the Republicans are as guilty if not as prolific.

Sorry for the mini rant, I now return you to the celebration for Mr. Bush

WOOHOO!!!!!!!!
:greenjumpers: :greenjumpers: :greenjumpers: :greenjumpers: :greenjumpers: :greenjumpers: :greenjumpers: :greenjumpers: :greenjumpers: :greenjumpers: :greenjumpers: :greenjumpers: :greenjumpers: :greenjumpers: :greenjumpers: :greenjumpers: :greenjumpers: :greenjumpers:

[DMMc]

Well Said Beerknurd.....Guess you can drink beer, live in Texas and philosophize intelligently all at once

[Beerknurd]

It's a talant..... :lol:

[Ototero]

Can I ask a question ?

No, another question....

What is the difference between a democrat and a republican?

Keep it simple please .

[NeoGen]

Nah... still don't believe in the "War against terrorism" propaganda...
Terrorist is fought inside one's country, not on the other side of the world.
And wars are always for interests (money, oil, power, etc), the rest is all lame excuses to get the people's approval...like "ending tiranny", "World peace", and "ending terrorism", and etc...
And the only people who win something with wars are the ones who make the weapons. Those are the ones who should be lined up against a wall and shot, because those are who make the weapons, sell them, and push the strings in the backstage to put ones against the others like little kids do.
"Ha Ha! He called you gay! Are you gonna let that pass? Go there and kick his ass!."
C'mon.... we should have all grown up by now. :?

[Empty_5oul]

syu i see what u meen, i was gonna ask the same question lol :P

[rrcrain]

A democrat is a Liberal politician that lies and steals your money.

A Republican is a conservative politician that lies and steals your money.

[Beerknurd]

lol there you go.... :lol:

Republicans tend to be the middle to upper class.

Democrats tend to be the middle to lower class. "Which is most of the population." But the middle class tends to go more towards the republican side because the middle class does most of the work and can't stand the people that sit home all day and mooch off the government and tax payers.
Democrats support welfare and unemployment. "Most of the time"

But that's just my view. I just happen to be a middle class person that busts his ass all day, and hates the fact that people that are perfectly able to get a job, choose not to because welfare and unemployment will give them free money. But it's not free money.... Taxpayers pay for them to be lazy asses.

Ok I'll shut up now, cause i'm starting to get all pissed off......... :mad:


But not really... ;)

[Beerknurd]

Quote by NeoGen

"Terrorist is fought inside one's country, not on the other side of the world."

What????? Have you heard of September 11th??? Hijacking 4 planes on foreign soil, running 2 into the World Trade Center, 1 into a field, and the other into the pentagon, amd killing thousands, last time I checked was called Terrorism. Afganistan didn't do that in their country.... They did it in our's.

[Keith75]

I would say that a

Republican is generally more independent and wants to make their own decisions. They support the small businesses with tax breaks.

Democrats seem to want to be taken care of and be told what is good and bad. They support the movie stars and some of the super rich and very poor who are poor because they don't want to get a job.

You guys over the pond are tired of it??? So are we! LOL I am surprised you guys would have that much coverage about it over there.

[Beerknurd]

There are going to be alot of diffrent definitions. If you really want to know a good definition look it up on the web. Cause on here it may tend to be a little one sided... :lol:

[Keith75]

Very true Beer. We seem to have a division though in the Democrats. We have the traditional Democrats in the south who aren't so bad then we have a new and growing Democrat, from the North East mainly, that is alot more radical. Kinda like Michael Moore and Al Franken.

Keith

[WienerDog]

Beer i know you're young...and i dont know if you have kids yet or not.
But if/when you do here is a few things for you to think about


U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK
The Outstanding Public Debt as of 04 Nov 2004 at 12:41:39 AM GMT is:

$7,452,308,323,050.89

The estimated population of the United States is 294,704,759
so each citizen's share of this debt is $25,287.37.

The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$1.67 billion per day since September 30, 2003!

guess who will pay this?? your kids most likely
god knows the people you adore that are in power never will.
here;s a lil thing to think about too while you hate paying taxes...get a clue taxes arent just for paying for welfare

Early warning signs

But Americans needn't wait until 2008 or 2011 to see firsthand the escalating costs of these benefit programs. Medicare last month announced the largest premium increase in the program's 39-year history. In 2004 alone, federal spending on Medicare and Social Security will increase $45 billion, to $789 billion. That one-year increase is more than the $28 billion budget of the Department of Homeland Security.

Many economists say a failure to confront the nation's debt promptly will only delay the inevitable.

"The baby boomers and the Greatest Generation are delivering an economic disaster to their children," says Laurence Kotlikoff, a Boston University economist and co-author of The Coming Generational Storm, a book about the national debt. "We should be ashamed of ourselves."

USA TODAY used official government numbers to compute what the burden means to the average American household. To pay the obligations of federal, state and local government:

• All federal taxes would have to double immediately and permanently. A household earning $100,000 a year would see its federal taxes double from an average of about $20,000 to $40,000 a year. All state taxes would have to increase 20% immediately and permanently.

• Or, benefits for Social Security, Medicare and government pensions would have to be slashed in half immediately and permanently. Social Security checks would be cut from an average of $1,500 per month for couples to $750. Military pensions would drop from an average of $1,782 per month to $891. Medicare spending would fall from $7,500 to $3,750 annually per senior. The Medicare prescription-drug benefit enacted last year would be canceled.

•Or, a combination of tax hikes and benefit cuts — such as a 50% increase in taxes and a 25% reduction in benefits — would avoid the extremes but still require painful changes that are outside the scope of today's political debate. Savings also could come in the form of price controls on prescription drugs, raising retirement ages and limiting benefits to the affluent.

Every solution has the potential to damage the economy by reducing disposable income or diverting economic resources.

the complete article is at http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation...ebt-cover_x.htm


our kids will be paying for our greed, and they will be payoing for one hellavu long time


oh and one more thing....you repubs just love welfare too my friend

Fact I : Spending for corporate welfare programs outweighs
spending for low-income programs by more than
three to one: $167 billion to $51.7 billion
(source: Aid for Dependent Corporations, from the
Corporate Welfare Project and How Much Do We Spend
on Welfare?, from the Center on Budget and
Policy Priorities, FY 95 figures).

Fact II: Total federal spending on a safety net for
the poor costs the average taxpayer about
$400 a year, while spending on corporate welfare
programs costs the same taxpayer about
$1400 a year. (source: CBO figures)

Fact III: Over 90% of the budget cuts passed by the
last Congress (1996? -ed.) cut spending for the poor
-- programs that ensure food for the needy,
housing for the homeless, job training for
the unemployed, community health care for
the sick. (source: Center on Budget and
Policy Priorities, Bearing Most of the Burden, 1996).

Fact IV: Only 3.9% of total federal outlays (as
of 1996? - ed.) go to programs that solely
benefit poor people.

Welfare programs for corporations do not
play by the same rules as welfare for people.
Welfare benefits for individuals and families are limited
by strict eligibility requirements and time limits, while
corporations get corporate welfare benefits regardless
of wealth or accountability.

Fact V: Individuals and families must demonstrate need
to receive benefits, while corporations with billions
of dollars in annual income remain on the federal dole.


Fact VI: Most social spending is in the form of
discretionary spending, which is scrutinized in
the annual budget negotiating process in
Congress; most corporate welfare programs are in
the form of tax expenditures, which go on and
on since they are not subject to annual review
by Congress.

full age can be viewed at http://www.eriposte.com/economy/tax...ate_welfare.htm



kinda funny too this Info was from 1996.......egad the welfare promoting Bill Clinton


its got worse since Pretzledunce Bush came into office

[vaughan]

The election coverage and result is important on the World stage purely because the USA is a superpower. I bet you had zippo coverage of our recent election here. Why? We are not a superpower.
Who can rival the USA? China is a superpower. Probably a subversive element called terrorism, too, but it conducts its business behind the scenes. Beerknurd I read what you said about the USA's continued involvement in Iraq and whilst I see your opinion I suspect that it is turning in to "another Vietnam" The war against the Iraqy insurgents is a guerilla war - you cannot win that. If it wasn't for the "Texas Tea" I'd say nuke the lot!

[Beerknurd]

I will post this again. I never said Bush was perfect. Nobody except Jesus was perfect. "Sorry for the religious insert" God knows Bush has faults. My main reason for voting for Bush was the reason below. Yes I tend to lean more towards the Republican side. But I feel that at this point, change is not what this country needs. Especially from an ass kissin', troop pullin, ugly wife bangin', flip floppin', terd called John Kerry. ..... That was fun. Anyways Weinerdog, this was my view on the whole situation.

And by the way, Welcome back!!!!!! haven't seen you in a while.






The main point being is maybe bush could have made better decisions. No president in history has ever made all good decisions. Bush did what he thought was right at the time. Bush can't come out and say "I made a mistake" and withdrawl the troops. You have to at least stay and finish what we started. You can't promise Iraq peace and then run out of there with you tail between your legs. Plus I believe that Bush made a good decision in helping Iraq. We brought a known terrorist/dictator to justice. Nobody likes the fact that our troops are over in Iraq being killed. But we are a generous country and the only way that we are going to build healthy relationships with other countries is to show them that we are willing to help out the less fortunate armies againt terrorist dictator's. We will never get completely rid of terrorists. That's impossible. But at least we can help Iraq build a strong enough government to bring the people that are doing the car bombings, suicide bombings, murders, torturing, and all terrorism to justice. Once Iraq has that kind of government set up we can start to pull our troops out of there slowly.

If John Kerry were elected president he would draw the troops out as soon as he could. Which sounds like a good thing, but if we leave now it will look like everything we did in the past 3 years was a mistake. Which is totally false. For example Saddam Huessain. (Sp??) Plus we will look bad to other countries becasue we can't finish a job. And if we don't finish the job and leave early, the government set up now won't be strong enough, and another dictator like Saddam will take over. And if that happens then yes, we would have been over there for nothing.

Sorry this was so long. I hope I answered all of your questions. If you need clarification on anything or want to argue just post it.

[Beerknurd]

Posted by Vaughan.....

"The war against the Iraqy insurgents is a guerilla war - you cannot win that."

I agree. But you can try to help build at least some kind of government to help control it some. Without government and laws this country would be a shit hole. Pardon the language. Iraq was a big shit hole, but hopefully with a little help from the good ol' USA, Iraq will at least upgrade to being a shit hole run by a governmet instead of a dictator.

[NeoGen]

Beerknurd

I know what happened in 9/11 and it was tragic indeed.
English is not my primary language, so I think I did not explain very well what I meant.
I meant that...for example... I have a basket full of eggs, and someone from afar throws a rock at it and breaks a few.
Now, If I had protected my basket of eggs better, with a coverage, a shield, whatever... that rock wouldn't have hit it and none of my eggs would have been broken.
That was what I meant with "fighting terrorism at our own country".
I'm defensive minded by nature, I believe that before attacking we should ensure that we are secured ourselves in our position.
So... if the planes got inside the usa and hit the buildings, that means that the air defence wasn't at all good, thus, we should blame ourselves. (I mean, not you and me... they who manage the defense of the country).
Anyone with half of a brain working can plan big terrorist acts, and also execute them provided they have the means and materials for it... The real challenge is in the preventing it from happening. Defending ourselves...

[Keith75]

I would have to agree. Vietnam is interesting. I watch the History channel alot and have learned alot that I wasn't ever taught in school about the whole situation over there. When Nixon got in and started pulling out troops towards the end he had two bombing campaigns that did more to hurt the enemy than all the ground fighting ever did. The problem was that the bombing that worked involved destroying Russian ships and killing Russians. Since we were trying to get along with them at the time this wasn't good. The case in Iraq though is mainly the US fighting insurgents from Iran and other Arab countries which I think will lessen when we get the Iraq government set up and they become strong enough to fight this on their own. Then the insurgents will be fighting the Iraqi people and not the US soldiers and I would guess that they will see that as being pointless.

Weinerdog,

Glad to see you back though I would have to disagree with alot you said. I think those debt amounts are projected aren't they? Even so I am certainly no economist but I tend to think that how much the debt will be isn't too important since they can always shift money and spending around to cover it. Government spending is good for our economy too. :lol:

Keith

[Beerknurd]

You can't defend against everything.... And in no way was it the US's fault that crazy people decided to hijack planes full of innocent people and crash them into things. And then try to use religion as a basis for it. HA!!! That's from the mind of a complete whack job that desrves to have his nuts stapled to his forhead. "Bin Laden"

Nobody could have defended against this tragedy. And I used to like Michael Moore. How dare him come out with a movie that exploits Bush's decisions before on and after 9/11. He is another guy that deserves his nuts stapled to his forhead. I'd like to see what he would have done in those circumstances. No one was prepared for what happened. Everyone says including that terd ball John Kerry... "I would have done things different". I call major BS. There's no way anyone can predict what you would do in that situation.


But that's just my view on the subject and I am not trying to sway other people to feel the way I do. I am just expressing my opinion. Plus I like to argue.

It is not my intention to offend anyone, so I hope I didn't. And if I did I'm sorry.

[WienerDog]

I'm not back....i just read in here sometimes and felt like replying, got tired of the harrasing emails...no the debt clock is DEAD on what the national debt is right now.
The stuff about the S.S. cuts are what would happen if NOTHING is changed and we keep spending like we do.
Now Bush is saying he has a mandate to keep doing what he's been doing.Well great.....we WILL have to pay that off sooner than later.

You guys do know how we get allot of the money to run this country ,right?Income taxes and the like are a big chunk,but so are bonds,T-bills and the like. Now,imagine the rest of the world{the majority of buyers of our debt} starting to think."maybe they cant pay it off,i ain't buying anymore".....lets just say 1929 would look WEAK compared to the crash we would have....and allot of economist think we'd never get out of.

Always whining about taxes.....but let the cops take more than 5 minutes to get to your call,because there isn't enough money to fully staff em,and you squeal like pigs. hate paying taxes..but get a pothole in your road because theres no money to fix em...squeal like pigs.
Got news for you..it takes money to run this country... and you guys use those services too.

Naw lets just privetize it all.......hell enron can run our energy needs...
Worldcom can take care of all our comm needs....good Repug organizations there..... Just think when Pretzledunce Bush privatizes S.S. these are what we can invest our money in.

[Beerknurd]

I'm not back....i just read in here sometimes and felt like replying, got tired of the harrasing emails...

Harrasing emails from who... Us??? What did I miss??

[NeoGen]

Oh man... I don't even wanna think of how many holy wars my country (Portugal) fought back in the XII to XV centuries...and we are catholics (or is it christians? Heck, It's all the same to me)
Is there enough staples to staple everyone's nuts on their forehead out there? :lol:

[Beerknurd]

Yes Bush lost jobs, Yes Bush created a deficit. But the big picture right now is Iraq. We have to finish what we started. Then we can deal with all the other stuff. But I agree, the nation's defecit is a big problem that need's to be resolved. And I can pretty much gurantee it won't be on Bush's clock. But the war is what's most important. He got himself in a mess and now we have to get out. I just can't stand Kerry because his whole campaign was Bush bashing. There's more important things than 5th grade name calling.

[Keith75]

The one thing about politics is that it is such a big, confusing and lied about subject that no one ever seems to have a clear picture unless you devote most if not all of your time to it. It sure seems to me like to root of all our economic troubles is NAFTA that President Clinton signed.

Keith

[Beerknurd]

We won't even start with Clinton..... :lol:

[Jeff]

Clinton was the best

[DMMc]

...
Republicans tend to be the middle to upper class.

Democrats tend to be the middle to lower class. ...

I feel that you need to add to this that on the Democrat side that the leaders of the Party, by an overwhelming majority, are extreme upper class and more often than not well and old moneyed. The Clinton’s were an exception to this rule but that would get into the difference between Northern and Southern Democrats.

[Keith75]

John Kerry's wife Tareza, no clue how you spell her name, ironically got all her billions from her ex-husband who was a Republican. He would turn over in his grave. LOL

Keith

[AMDave]

off topic

Beer, its great to see Kermie again :)

[Beerknurd]

I kinda figured everyone would be relieved to see kermit again.